Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones Discusses Iraq and Impeachment

By Mansoor Sabbagh, www.globalvoicesforjustice.org

PLAY AUDIO

Mansoor Sabbagh: What is your assessment of what's going on in Iraq right now?

Stephanie Jones: I am a member of the Out of Iraq Caucus. We participated in the rally the other night saying to the Senate, "Give us an up or down vote – let the majority rule." I talked about the fact that my father recently passed; he was 87 years old, four days short of his 87th birthday. And when I went to the funeral his casket was cover with a flag, because he was a World War II veteran. And I stood there and I thought… I was blessed that my dad lived to 87, and I hoped that not many more mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, wives, children would have to stand by a flag-draped casket with their babies. I've gone to deployments, I've been to many many funerals, many many memorial services, and it's just time for the United States to get a wake-up call and say that it was mistake that we made, and we need to redefine the mission and bring our young men and women. The other thing that people don't talk about very often is that among 50 percent of the women in the military right now are African-American women. Fifty percent! And then in addition to that, we have so many young men and women who signed up for the Guard, and they're over there doing full time service. It is overdue. George Bush is …I remark that he reminds me of Joe Frazier fighting Muhammad Ali. He kept going like a train, and Muhammad went, pop! pop! pop! …and he kept going. And he just will not listen to the people of America, so I'm saying to the people of America, rise up! Make your feelings known. Don’t let this President take us down a path that we can't recover from.

MS: Why is it that since November 6th elections, it appears that the philosophy of the Democratic Party has changed. We used to be like …out there, fighting the fight, and all of a sudden it's just like everything went back to the back burner, the impeachment…

SJ: Well, you know, here's the thing. You have so many opportunities to make a voice. And you have to put your voice in areas where it can be best heard. I think that, you know, clearly all Democrats aren't on the same page, but Democrats are saying that is time to redefine the mission in Iraq. Even the most conservative – except for Lieberman – are defining that it's time to make a change. The impeachment process: time intensive, work intensive. This man has 400 and some days left in the Presidency. If we put all of our time and attention on that, then we can't focus in on getting out Iraq, we can't focus in on healthcare for our children, we can't focus in on education, we can't focus in on immigration issues, we can't focus… And I think that leadership has just made a decision that our time and energy and Dollars are better spent on issues that are important to the people of America. Even though we know that George Bush has done a poor job – a very very poor job – and his ratings are down. Think about how much time impeachment takes. It was a lot of months and a lot of time put into impeaching Bill Clinton. George Bush will be out of office before we'll ever have a chance to impeach him.

MS: There is a question to that end, that is the legacy that this man's going to leave behind in the White House, and that is the statement signing, not following the rules, the separation of powers…

SJ: Allowing an Attorney General to not follow the Constitution. All of that. And even if we don't impeach him, history will write that. We will write that. The American people will have an opportunity to speak on that. Clearly I understand that people would like for there to be impeachment. But more importantly, there are things that I think we need to focus on, and history – and we will write what George Bush has done to our country.

MS: Absolutely correct, but I just want to bring you back to this point – that is, the legacy that he's leaving behind, the next President – doesn't matter to be a Democrat or Republican – will have all this power.

SJ: But see, the reality is that this is not true power. This is power that he is exercising, but ultimately the courts will determine that he has not that. I mean, just like you're talking about Cheney – he, all of sudden, he's not a part of the Executive Committee. And, believe me, this Congress is exercising oversight that has never been exercised. We've issued subpoenaes…

MS: Give an example, please.

SJ: I'll give an example: Harriet Meirs, the Council for the President, refused to come before the Congress. We've issued a subpoena for her. We're going to move forward on that. We're getting information with regard to the Vice President. We're getting information that the American people will have a chance to know what's going on. They try to clause it, they try to cover it up, and we've had more hearings trying to get information out than has ever been had. I've been in Congress, my ninth year, and, unfortunately, under the Republican leadership, we exercised no oversight. That's how we ended up in Iraq with so many Dollars expended. It is time, and I believe that the Democratic leadership – keep in mind, we have four African-Americans who chair full Committees, and we've got 16 African-Americans who chair sub-committees, we have a number of Hispanics who chair…Sylvester Reyes, the chair of the Intelligence Committee, is Hispanic. I mean, this is our opportunity, but it takes time – it's not an instant occurrence.

MS: But I've got to ask you this, and I’m not…

SJ: Sure, please!

MS: I'm going to ask an American question, and that is, what – and I know you guys have it, you the Progressive Democrats have it – but American people want to know, the general, the working class, middle class: What happened to the backbone of the Democratic Party?

SJ: Well, I am proud to say, that last year I got the backbone award, and I got it because I was willing to step up and say to the American people, "I am not going to… I'm going object to the counting of the Ohio vote, and we are going to take time out, meaning that in 2005 the counting of George Bush and giving him those votes. Senator Barbara Boxer and I stepped up, and we had two hours of addressing the issue of voting in Ohio. But, there's backbone, but understand, that once you get in power, it is uh, it is tenuous, and you have to exercise it gingerly. That majority is pretty slim. If it was greater, we wouldn't have to worry about the 60 votes. We don’t have 60 votes! So we have to do things that bring us to the table and brings attention to the American public, and we're just not yet in a position to do all that people want. But I'd say to you that the Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, is a tough woman, she's working very hard; Jim Clyburn, the Majority Whip, an African-American from South Carolina, is working very hard. And we're trying to the best that we can, but legislating is not as easy as people would want it to be. And clearly, well you know, we could stand on the top of the world – we could stand on the top of the mountain, but George Bush has, we don't have enough votes to cut a veto – to hold up a veto.

MS: Could you explain the complexity of that, you're saying we don’t have enough power.

SJ: Okay, under… We have power, but understand that in order to override a Senate – a veto in the Senate – you have to have 60 votes. We don't have 60 Democratic votes. When we want to get 60 votes, we have to get Republicans that buy into us. In the House, we have 218 or 222 Democratic votes, but some of those folks are – for lack of better term – not true Democrats. They're Democrats, but they represent Districts that traditionally turn Republican, and in order to hold those seats, some of the votes we would want them to vote, they are unable to vote because they believe they would lose their seats. So that is how we are caught up. And the margin of victory is not as great as it needs to be in order for us to do some of things that American people would want. But understand that the Democrats are stepping up – we're doing as best we can under the circumstances. Give us some time. We've only have been in power – what is this, July – seven months! And we are going against 12 years of Republican leadership where they have devastated the people of America. The President has killed our …the way people perceive as across the world, they have put us in debt with China, Japan. We're spending more money in Iraq than we are spending … right now we're fighting about we're giving health care to children and adults. There's no reason we should, but we're committed to "pay go" – pay as you go. So when you commit to staying within the budget, it forces you to do trade offs, and unfortunately, that's where we are. But give us time, people of America. We have – I have not forgotten from whence I came, and I know that I represent sometimes that I'm like Esther in the Bible: I'm at this place at this time for this purpose.

MS: Congresswoman Jones from Ohio District 11. I have three more simple questions. One is, tell the American people what you want them to do because that's – every event that we go to they always ask, "Tell us what to do," and they want to hear it from you.

SJ: What we – I need the people of America to do is step up. See I come…I'm a… I will be 58 in September and I'm a 60's girl, and we stood on corners and stood on top of buildings, and we rebelled. We said – the people knew what we were thinking. Unfortunately, we find many people now who are unwilling to get out and protest and let their voices be heard. They need to write to their Senator.

MS: Why is that?

SJ: Well, a lot of people are busy trying to survive day-to-day. In the economic situation that we're in where the Dollar is devalued, and people are paying $3 for a gallon of gasoline and $3 for a loaf of bread. Their attention is focused on living day-to-day, but somehow we've got to get them looking long-term, and part of the long-term is protesting. And protesting by way of standing on corners, by sending letters, sending emails, making phone calls, but more importantly to get engaged in the process. The reality is, a small percentage of America goes out and votes and elects the next President or the next Vice President or Senator. And we need to people to get engaged in the process. I know people say, "Well you know I can't figure out what my vote counts. But, my philosophy is, it’s your vote – use it or lose it. In the other countries, people stand in line for hours to exercise their right. This is a free country we live in, and you need to exercise you right to vote, not only on the national level, but on local level with the school boards, with the city council people, the State Representatives and State Senators. We need you engaged in the process.

MS: You want them to do what the rightwing Republicans did in the 80's, to get engaged with every aspect of life.

SJ: I want them to do what Democrats used to do! You know, we were the voice and the conscience of the Nation, and we need to continue to be that. Because it's not only – I don't speak only for me – I've got a 24-year-old son who I hope will have a useful and productive life. I have no grandkids yet, but I hope to have some grandchildren.

MS: Enshallah.

SJ: Right, and in addition to which I speak for the seniors in my Congressional district who need a voice, who are struggling to buy prescription drugs and eat at the same time. We're engaged right now in a situation where there are more people who were subjected to predatory lending – they're losing their houses – and among working people. That was the asset we used to pass from generation-to-generation. We didn't have a Trust, where rich people pass a Trust and the kid at 22 gets a million Dollars. Our babies don't get that kind of money, but they used to get a house. Now, they can't even get a house.

MS: And that’s where I was going to bring it back to tonight's event, which is a trilateral…

SJ: It's a Tri-Caucus Health Summit, and we're trying to focus in on issues that affect Tri-Caucus: Congressional Black Caucus, Congressional Hispanic Caucus, Congressional Asian-Pacific Caucus. And what happens in health care in this nation is that there are disparities that occur for lack of cultural sensitivity. But even a black man and a white man a Hispanic man can have the same health care coverage, and the delivery is different. And we have to begin to understand that part of our health is in our own hands. Now, you know, we like to eat certain things that, you know, is historical, but the reality is, diabetes predominates in our neighborhoods, obesity predominates, and diabetes and obesity produces end-stage renal disease, kidney failure and problems that you can't overcome. Our babies need to be healthy and be able to function. If you don't have good body, you don't have a great mind. And that's where we need to get our children.

MS: And the last question is this: You mentioned that you attend the funerals of soldiers coming back home. How does it make you feel that George Bush has not attended one single funeral and will not allow one of those to be photographed or broadcast.

SJ: It's shameful and it's a disgrace that the President of the United States, when he talks about taking care of the veterans and the people killed in war, and he doesn't demonstrate it. It's overdue, and it's time for him to step up and do his job.

MS: Thank you very much Congresswoman Jones.

*** End of Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones interview ***

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Mansoor Sabbagh is director of Global Voices for Justice (www.globalvoicesforjustice.org) a non-profit media organization based in Los Angeles, California. We record talks, speeches, and community events within greater Southern California. Mansoor Sabbagh can be reached at info@gvfj.org also via phone at 323.850.4464.